>> Jaimie Abbott: Well, my guest today is Suzanne Alexander. And Suzanne is the founder and owner of Mindful Finances. She's a certified financial coach, a, money mentor and educator, and is based in Melbourne here in Australia. Now, during her 18 years in the finance industry, eight of those in a financial advisory role, she became interested in the psychology of money to understand the gap between what clients were saying and what they were actually doing. At the beginning of 2021, she stepped away from financial advising and delve further into the psychology of finances through financial coaching. And this was driven by a need to uncover what she felt was the missing piece in the financial advice process and what is also an integral part of money management. Now a certified financial coach and certified money coach, Suzanne helps clarity clients to transform their relationship with money. And I can certainly use some help in that area and build financial well being by helping them to understand their money story, as well as overcome the overwhelm that can be associated with managing their finances and establish solid financial foundations so they can build wealth confidently in all aspects of their life. Suzanne Alexander, welcome to Pitch Perfect.
>> Suzanne Alexander: That's great to be here.
>> Jaimie Abbott: I should also mention you are a proud PR club member and one of my paid to speak alumni. and I'm looking forward to seeing you in 2025 and beyond. Getting onto more stages, I guess. I've got no plan questions, but one is just coming to mind reading out that, that fabulous bio of yours. Have you always wanted to get into finances? I mean, how did this all start growing up? Were you a money person, a budgeting person? How did this kind of, Well, how did you fall into this world?
>> Suzanne Alexander: Yeah, it's an interesting question because the reality is when I stepped into finance, I actually had little understanding around how to manage my money or how to make money in terms of going after higher salaries. And I remember my first step into really exploring how to manage money was my sister sitting me down and actually explaining what a budget was. Which is pretty crazy given that, you think that we walk around. A lot of people have this inclination that, we should just know how to make and manage and multiply money. But the reality is we aren't taught about it in schools for the most part. And more often than not, we're not taught about it in the home environment. So I remember I'd gone overseas. I had, you know, managed to survive overseas for three years without really knowing how to manage my money. But a lot of that was driven by literally living pay to pay. And so when I came back and I racked up, you know, quite a bit of a debt. You know, having lived abroad and then setting myself back up here in Australia, it was like something had to change. And so I actually was working for a company and at that point it was like, right, no one's actually going to come and save me. You know, the only person that can do this is me. And one of the work colleagues I, worked closely with, he had actually suggested to go and see a financial advisor. So I took myself off to see a financial advisor. And given my circumstances and my situation at that point, it was like, oh, just keep doing what you're doing. I was like, oh, but there's something there. Like, there's something more there. I should be able to do more than what I was doing. It wasn't just a matter of saving more. There must have been more. So I started going into the study and really exploring, well, what else was out there. And then, you know, it started off as more of a hobby and interest rather than, oh, this is going to be a new career. And then it started to sort of roll into, well, if I don't know this, how many other people are out there that don't know it as well? And so eventually I kept studying and studying and eventually, stepped into being a financial advisor. So it's, it's interesting because we do have this belief that we should know how to do it all. The reality is we just don't.
>> Jaimie Abbott: Yeah, so that's really interesting. So you have kind of fallen into this from learning those bad habits and then therefore knowing what not to do and then getting yourself out of that. I, I really relate to, because in my 20s, 30s, I got into so much credit card debt. I think at one point I was about 80,000 in credit card debt. Clawed my way back and promised never ever to have a credit card again, just because I, you know, that credit card. And there's so many different ways you can rack up debt, but in my case it was credit cards, and I would just tap it, thinking it wasn't my money. and in the bio I said that you kind of, you, you kind of want to uncover this missing piece between what people are saying that they're doing and what they're actually doing. Can you explain more about that? So are people sort of portraying the fact that they, they are better off than they are. Is that the meaning behind that sort of statement?
>> Suzanne Alexander: Yes, sometimes. So as particularly as a financial advisor, what would happen is clients would come in and they would almost just come in and Hand over. it'd be like, oh, here's all my stuff. And I was one of those advisors that would hand it all back and go, right, we're going to work together. I'm not here to rescue you because it's more about how do I inspire you to be empowered with managing your finances? And so more often not, people would come with a level of overconfidence of what they knew, but the reality was you don't know what you don't know. And so the gap between, oh, this is what I want. So as an advisor, even as a coach, this is what I want. But there's a massive gap between this is what I want and this is how I'm behaving. But the reality is, so from a more of a finance perspective, we were dealing with, well, how are you behaving? Okay, great, you just need to save more, you need to stop spending. But then that wasn't changing, that was more just telling someone what to do. And you may, you know, have experienced this with your own relationship with money and credit card debt. It's not just a matter of saying no more, because usually there's an emotional driver. And so the gap really comes from, well, what are the thoughts and the beliefs that you have around money? What's the feelings and emotions that are evoked when you actually spend money? So whether it's, you know, using cash or whether it's using debit, whatever it is. But what's the emotional gap? Because that's the gap between what is it that you want? And then the behaviour that you exhibit is directly influenced by the thoughts, beliefs, feelings and emotions that drive the habits that you then create. So historically, from a financial advising perspective, we wouldn't have delved into the thoughts and feelings, the emotions, and this is where we need to go into, because if we don't understand why you're spending, then you can't actually stop or rewire the habit. So it's understanding what your blueprint is. What's the money blueprint? What was the environment like growing up? What was the cultural influences? What did you see? What did you hear? What were you taught that you've actually brought into adulthood and are playing out today? And it's, it's like any software system. I mean, you know, you turn open your computer nearly every day and there's an update, software update of some sort. But the reality is, how often do we explore that from a money relationship around what we were taught, what we witnessed? We don't go through that upgrade and that's the big gap, that I work in, which is, okay, what's your money blueprint? What's. We start with awareness. You know, what have you been taught? What are your thoughts, your beliefs, what are the emotions and feelings? And you tapped on it before, which is when you pay by credit card, it's actually delaying the pain sensation. Like if you pay with cash, the pain's instantaneous. If you pay with card, even, you know, direct debit, because it's a card you're delaying. When you actually see the balance with your credit card, you usually have, you know, a certain period of time or. And you know, for most people it's like, well, you know, that's. I don't have to pay this back. I've met many people that have gone credit, they've given me $20,000, I don't have to pay it back. And it's like, actually you do with interest if you don't meet the timeframe. So that's where we're playing into, which is really starting to understand what is your relationship with money and really starting to tune into what is serving you, what is really challenging and how do you start to rewire so that you're actually building out really good behaviours and habits that are going to support, but also really aligning what are the thoughts, the beliefs, the emotions and feelings. Because those emotions and feelings, if they're not explored as well, will come back. Especially when you're in a heightened emotional.
>> Jaimie Abbott: State and potentially sabotage you talking about those emotional drivers. And I've read a little bit about this topic and this seems to be a common emotional driver, especially for, for women and, but also men. And that is kind of, from what I read, driven by insecurities. This desire to always keep with the Joneses always had the latest car, the latest designer handbag. And then fueling that is these deep insecurities where we use money to make ourselves feel better. Is that the common sort of emotional driver or is it really a broad spectrum of issues as to why people have problematic relationships with money?
>> Suzanne Alexander: It is quite broad spectrum. Normally, when you talk about insecurity, the underlying emotion can often, often be fear. So fear, guilt, shame are usually drivers which will then tie into insecurity or self worth. But you can also work with people that have grown up with an abundance of money but then have also then gone. Maybe there's a ceiling cap in place or maybe there was an association that they don't want to be known as, you know, having huge amounts of wealth. Maybe they'd been ostracised in school or they'd been a particular situation where they were segregated because of the wealth that they had. So some of the emotions can be quite broad but normally those more challenging emotions do come back into feel fear, guilt, shame. And you're right, that is insecurity falls into that container as well as self worth issues. If you have low self worth, are you going to be going in and asking for a pay rise or are you going to be appropriately pricing for the services that you provide if you're in business? So that will tie into that. But there's that emotional connection and which is often, you know, comes about because of an event or experience that you've had and that isn't always money related. It could be something completely different. More often than not it's happened in childhood but it could come from a trauma such as, you know, a passing of a loved one or going through a significant event such as a separation or divorce or you know, someone experiencing a serious illness. So it's really starting to understand that ah yes, emotions play a core role but it's understanding what is the emotional driver that's really pushing you and what's the deeper emotion that you know, underlies that. So the, the one that you reference to usually that comes back to a deeper core feeling of fear.
>> Jaimie Abbott: Yeah, I mean I, I'm just thinking back as you're talking. So I started working when I was 13 and two months at a little chicken shop in Newcastle. Not a little chicken shop, it's, it's Australia, y, I think called Red Roost. at that age I started earning pretty good money. I was working all the time whilst I was at high school and I was earning around $400 a week. Which back then in 1995, was when I was in year seven and I started working there. That was a lot of money. And ever since that day I've always worked and I've never been without money. And I think because I haven't experienced the scarcity of not having money, I'm not good with it because I always think, well, I'm just going to keep making money all the time. and I contrast that when I was working in radio at 2GB radio in Sydney, I had a colleague and we lived together for a little while actually. And I remember in the fridge one day, opening up the fridge and there was a can of tuna and it had gone mouldy, like completely mould, like on top of like it had been opened and there was a layer of mould and I threw it out. And my flatmate at the time, she said to me, why did you throw that out? She got very upset and we had a big, deep and meaningful. And she said growing up in England they didn't have any money and so if there was food that went mouldy they would simply scrape it off and eat underneath. And that's a habit even though she was working, but that's this stage she was working at Channel 10 actually as a, a big journalist and she was earning good money when I was living with her. And she was still going back to those habits because she had been without money for, for many, many years growing up and and really carried those habits through. And it was a bit of a lesson for me. It doesn't matter how much you earn, it's how much you save. Do you really believe in that sort of Phil?
>> Suzanne Alexander: Yeah, look, savings will come into that, but it depends where you come from. So that mindset you spoke about with regard to your housemate is very much a scarcity and lack. So it doesn't matter how much you earn and how much you save. Without addressing the emotions and feelings and the thoughts, you know, and beliefs around that more often she could be earning a million dollars a year but she'll be still sitting in a place of like. And so often that comes from a deeper feeling around not having safety and security men. And so it really, when we talk about how much can you save? I've met a number of people over the years that as really good savers because they've come from a scarcity mindset. It doesn't change their level of financial security or well being because what I find is they actually don't spend on themselves. So everything goes towards saving but they're not reinvesting in themselves. So money has this natural beautiful flow like money comes in and money goes out. That's the natural flow of money. But with someone that's come from, you know, they've experienced trauma and that is a trauma where you know, you're having to scrape out the mouldy parts and, and reuse. one of the things that can start to come up is this, I have to hold on to every cent and again it can come back into that fear, that underlying fear, emotion. But also it could be I'm not worth investing in myself because I haven't met this, you know, that financial security. So you're right, saving does come into it and Provides a core component of building wealth for the future. Because by saving we can invest that money, really support ourselves and set ourselves up for the future. But if, if it's coming from a place of lack and security. I've worked with clients over the years that have millions of dollars in their bank accounts, that they live almost as if, they're homeless. They don't put heating and cooling on, you know, they're really scarce with regard to electricity and their family members have been supporting them, thinking that they're really poor and only to realise that they've got all this money sitting in a bank. But they've had this massive fear and insecurity that if they lose that hel. They going to make it, how are they going to get it back? So, yeah, so it, it, it sort of, it depends. I would say, you know, security, you know, is, is the core foundation, which is the driver, financial security and well being. That really does drive how you behave with money. And if you don't feel that that's been met and again, doesn't matter how much you have in savings, how much you're earning, you'll just continue the same pattern and cycle.
>> Jaimie Abbott: Yeah, it's really interesting you're now really getting me thinking because I think many of us have that friend, that stingy friend, you know, who never puts in for anything, will turn up, eat all your food, drink all your alcohol and not pitch in. And, I've got one particular friend, of a friend, kind of in my social circle who is like that, an older man. And, we're always. He's quite wealthy actually. asset wise, Owns, his house, beautiful car, but is very, very stingy. And we all just sort of laugh a little bit, with him. And to say, no wonder you got so much money because you're so stingy. But now I'm really starting to think there could be more to it for people like that. And it's not what you see on the surface. It could be, as you said, like the millionaire who, is worried about losing it. So it could be something much more deep. So, you know, you've really got me thinking there.
>> Suzanne Alexander: Yeah. And if you think about it too, a lot of people, you know, our attachment with money is so complex. That's why I love delving into the relationship with money. Because some people will live a, really abundant life but don't have much. And yet some people will have the bells and whistles, they'll have the multiple homes, they'll have the Luxury cars, the luxury holidays, and yet they're constantly in a place of, it's not enough. And so when we talk about that relationship with money, it's really coming back into a place of what does financial wealth and wellbeing mean to you? What does abundance mean to you? You know, what does success mean to you? So it's really starting to navigate where you have benchmarked and everyone's got their own benchmark, which is why, you know, when we talk about the relationship you have with money and what you perceive as abundance, it's so unique to every individual. But, to be able to even meet that core foundation of financial security and financial wellbeing so that you can set yourself up for financial independence, we need to have a really solid foundation. It's like a house, you know, you put down the cement slab and that provides a really solid foundation in which to build the house, but without that. And that's where your money blueprint your relationship and how you manage your money comes into that.
>> Jaimie Abbott: Yeah, I love it. So you help people deal with all of this, managing their finances, delving into the psychology. Is there a particular sector or group that you work with? Is it entrepreneurs? Is it women? Is it older people? Is it younger people? Anyone in particular that you of specialise in helping?
>> Suzanne Alexander: Yeah, so I work predominantly with women. I've always been, I think, because of my own attachment, you know, for a long period of my life I was single, so it was literally, I had to know all of this. I couldn't outsource it to someone else. And so I really strongly, align with supporting women. But I work with a lot of couples and I also work with a lot of men with regard to supporting them, because more often than not, you know, from a male point of view, they kind of feel a little disempowered speaking to, you know, particularly another man with regard to finances. Maybe they feel like they can't ask questions. I remember as an advisor, as a female, you know, a lot of the women would start coming in to the conversations and going, oh, wow. I can actually feel like I understand this or I feel like, you know, that, I can ask a question. So when I work with women, and predominantly they are professional, so they're earning, you know, money and, or small business owners that are really wanting to get. Get foundations set up so that they do have the confidence to ask, you know, you know, to charge for their services and, and really be able to follow through. Because there's no sense being in business if you're not going to make a profit and you know, pay yourself accordingly as well. So it the demographic is sort of around that 35, 40 to 55 that I tend to attract. But it's one of those things. It's if you're open to exploring your relationship with money. And I have worked with some younger clients because I find now, because we've had an influx of information available, you know, whether through socials or through, you know, online, that level of awareness around money is actually heightened versus, you know, maybe someone similar age to myself that really wasn't given that opportunity in the school environment or we didn't have the exposure to the Internet, and definitely didn't have exposure to our mobile phone, growing up as much as they do now.
>> Jaimie Abbott: And so how do you work? Do you have programmes or can people do one on one sessions with you? How can people get your help?
>> Suzanne Alexander: Yeah, absolutely. So my main core programme is the Money Mindset Reprogram. It really goes into the foundations of your money blueprint. So we explore the mindset, we go into the money. So really starting to focus on what is a values aligned cash flow model, like how is this going to work for you? I was talking about the unique relationship and what abundance means to you. So it's putting it into a model that really supports a client and then the momentum is what are the structures and systems. So I'm an ex financial advisor so I don't provide advice with regard to products, I don't go into investment advice. My focus is really helping a client to support them around financial literacy, having strong financial foundations around cash, flow, but also having the mindset and, you know, an aligned body to be able to carry through and support that change and rewire how you've been operating with money so you can welcome more wealth into your world. I also have another programme called the Magnetic Money Queen. I go deeper, more into I guess the more spiritual side of money with something that we don't often talk about. But there's a balance between the spiritual, the, the mindset, the practical and the body work. And it's really bringing all of that together. And that's a longer programme. It's a six month programme where I support clients to really step into another level of abundance.
>> Jaimie Abbott: Oh, I love that. And so how can people find you? Of course we'll put all the your social links in the show notes, but how can people reach you to find out more about working with you?
>> Suzanne Alexander: Yeah, absolutely. So Suzanne Alexander on Facebook, and on LinkedIn and also mindful underscore finances on Instagram or mindful finances dot com.
>> Jaimie Abbott: Suzanne Alexander, thank you so much for coming onto Pitch Perfect. Was there anything, like, urgent that you wanted to, to throw in there, which we didn't cover? I know we delved a fair bit, but is there anything or any last sort of messages or words of wisdom you'd like to leave, the audience today?
>> Suzanne Alexander: Yeah, absolutely. One of the big things, and, you know, use me as the test dummy because I. I came from a very scarcity mindset approach. And one of the big things was I had this belief that I couldn't change that. That's what, you know, that's how you operated. Or, you know, when someone said, oh, you just don't, you know, spend less or more, that's how the world. But the reality is, it's not our fault with regard to the operating system that we're operating with at the moment. We've merely just borrowed beliefs, thoughts, you know, everything that we've taken in and observed. But the reality is we can actually change that. It's like returning a book to the library and looking at all your beautiful books in the background. But it's like, you know, we borrow these beliefs and these thoughts and what we've been told, but we can actually return that and choose to take out another book, which is rewiring, so that you can set yourself up for success and abundance. So just really letting, anyone who's listening to this know that you have the power, like, you've got the power to be able to change this. It's not set in stone, so don't feel that it is.
>> Jaimie Abbott: I love that we do have the power. Thank you so much once again for coming on today. It's been. It's been really fabulous to have you here.
>> Suzanne Alexander: You're welcome. Thank you for having me.
