Jamie: Well, my guest today is back by popular demand. Jo Vadillo is here joining us for the second time on Pitch Perfect. And before I bring her on, I might just explain a little bit about her background in case you've been living under a rock and didn't see the last podcast episode with the two of us. But Jo is a professional property expert and cheerleader, plus an advocate for women looking to embark on their property journey. Now Jo became highly experienced in the property space through self-education, having learned so much through firsthand investing herself, and she still remains a very hands-on property investor. In 2011, she established her buyer's agency, Advocate Property Services Pty Ltd, and she was one of the first females in this emerging industry. She spent the first few years explaining to people what a buyer's agent was and how they can help people invest in solid properties with great returns. Now Jo acquired the educational arm of her business, Property Women, in 2015 and her first book was published in 2018. She's now purchased hundreds of properties for clients, equating to multiple tens of millions of dollars in value. Now, having undertaken many strategies herself, Jo understands the investor journey and some of the strategies that she has embraced over the years include property developments, including the splitter blocks, renovations, builds, interstate purchases, joint venture structures, buying our super and managing Airbnbs but it hasn't always been rainbows and unicorns because she has learned a lot along the way. And one standout is that you do not have to have a formal education to be successful in the real estate game. But you do need to surround yourself with the right people. Apply some grit and determination, set clear goals, and start; just make a move in the right direction. Now I know Jo personally; she's a member of PR club and property has changed her family's financial stability. And her goal is really just to empower more women to follow her lead. So, Jo Vadillo, welcome to Pitch Perfect.
Jo Vadillo: It's an absolute pleasure to be here. Thanks, Jamie. I love that I am a professional cheerleader. I love cheering people on by the sidelines, I get such a buzz out of helping our clients get into the property space and that is sometimes owner occupiers but a big chunk of our business is actually working with investors. Oh yeah, that's very, absolutely.
Jamie: So, I got you on though. I mean, you were recently speaking at the Business Blueprint Wealth Summit on the topic of seven negotiation tactics in real estate. And you know, I think that that's actually a common link there. I want to hear all about it and particularly how, you know, some of the parallels are there with property negotiation tactics and how this can work when you're applying for perhaps speaking events or maybe looking for some PR opportunities. But before I get there, though, I did just want to ask you—and I know I asked you this last time—but when you got started as a buyer's agent, you were one of the very first females in the industry. You know, how's that? What's that been like? What was it like and what's it like now?
Jo Vadillo: Actually, I've only been asked that, actually, it was... I literally spent the first several years of our business explaining why on earth you'd need a buyer's agent. So people would be like, bro, I explained what they do and how we, you know, we help people get into property, we support them throughout the journey, do all the negotiations, represent them, etc. And it would go, "Why would I pay someone to do that for me?" But you look at it like, when you sell your house, you use an expert to sell the property, but you're going to blindly not, maybe not doing the due diligence, not knowing what you need to look out for, not even knowing how to punch the numbers, make sure you're not overpaying, or that you're buying a property that, I know, that's next door neighbors have already gotten approval for boarding houses something that's going to be less desirable and needs to come. So it was very much me sort of having to flip it back on people to actually understand that, and it was actually nice. It's nice. Now I'd have to explain what a buyer's agent does all the time, because that minute was a great conversation starter, but there's a lot of networking in those early years. And yeah, basically explaining why and how I can actually help people. And you just have to do
that. Now. Do you have to explain to people what a buyer's agent does, or do you think everyone now knows what you guys do?
Jo Vadillo: Yeah,
look, very rarely would I come across somebody not really understanding or they've at least heard the terminology. So it's not a completely new space. So I think that makes life a little bit easier. But I mean, a lot of what I do, I was already doing it pro bono for years beforehand, just didn't have a name or an industry applicable to it. So I started investing in my late 20s. I wish I had started earlier; people would go, "What the bison give people if I just start do something start now doesn't matter how old you are." And I was already starting to be quite successful in getting the rungs on the ladder myself. So my friends and family would ask me for support. And I was like, "Yeah, heck, I'll come on Saturday and look at Bobby's work because I just enjoyed it" without realizing that a lot of parts of my role was already it's almost like an organic thing for me. I'm really good at negotiation because I'm good at building rapport with people. And it's a natural, I think, in seeing opportunities in a lot of things that, you know, when I'm representing for clients. So all of that was a bit of a night skill I already had and then I went and actually did the the study behind it and got licensed and all the things that come with that now, and I really was one of the very first females in Australia, Australia to represent that buyer's agent, you know, role.
Jaimie: Well speaking of rapport, I mean, the number one tip so I've heard you talk about is building rapport. And in your case, I guess it would be with selling agents. And I really think that that rule of building rapport with your stakeholders and your stakeholders or selling agents as well as the buyers, you know, how transferable is that to everyday life in any industry?
Jo Vadillo: Everything, everything, and look, you know what I mean? Always, just I probably can resonate on some level with 97% of the population, you know, like this, you know, some in, obviously with real estate agents but as you speak in the same speak you know, when we went on buying property for somebody I'm also we're all want the same outcome, the vendor wants to sell, the agent wants to sell, we want to buy it, and it's a bit of an unusual dance that we do do as buyer's agents. We have a fiduciary duty to represent our clients and as does the sales agent, except their client is selling the property and somewhere in the middle we must meet. But that skill I've been able to build a rapport with people is obviously vital in everything that you do. And, you know, I try I, you know, I think it's something that can be transferable and it's also when you are presenting yourself or doing any sort of PR opportunities as a small business owner, being likable, being memorable, remembering people's names, using their names when you speak to them, being courteous. I mean, there's definitely some agents I have to confess, and, you know, I'll look at a property that's on the market and not see who’s not selling it and I'm like, roll my eyes, but it's my job to still step in and and you know, keep that relationship amicable and make sure that the outcome is great for all, and I've had clients say, you know, "I want to buy here but I'm not going to use this particular agent." And it's like, "Well, why would you not buy a property just because you don't like the agent?" Ultimately, you're chasing the numbers. It's a numbers game, right? Like you want to get a good good property. So I think yeah, being able to build rapports everything and it's an absolute skill, whether you're a selling agent or you're a buyer's agent, and whether you're a business owner, it's really, reallyimportant.
Jaimie: And also, I guess, building off that being likable and easy to work with as well. I mean, then that people sort of underestimate just how powerful that is, right?
Jo Vadillo: Yeah, yeah. Oh, look. Absolutely. So you know, again, turning this back on to obviously real estate initially and that is when I talked to agents in my office very same same with somebody else's I make a really compelling to work with me and you know, I'm representing the buyer, the buyers super committed, they're paying me to do the service for them. I'll get the contract filled, I get the contract reviewed. I'll basically do everything but you know, sit there and like waiver, the you know, the 10% check underneath the agent's nose, which I have actually done in years past back in the olden days, whenever, you know, when you drive to the office and go look, look, sign contract, let's go. But I'll make it easy to do business with me. I'll come in but you know, it's the same thing if you're trying to put yourself out there to do speaking on stage you know, you do provide things like your one sheet. This is, you know, this is what I'm suggesting that I might present on stage is going to be very applicable to your audience. You're just making it really simple to go yep, this is the person I want to do business with.
Jaimie: Yeah, absolutely. Let's talk about leveraging off terms and conditions. So one of the parallels that, you know, I see when you were talking about the negotiation tactics is leveraging off terms and conditions. And I guess, can you explain the parallel there because when I heard you say that, I thought, well, if you can't get large speaker fees, perhaps if the client doesn't have a huge budget perhaps you might be able to say, can I access your database or can you send out my latest offer to your database? You know, talk to me about the some of the parallels when it comes to you know, accessing and leveraging off Terms and Conditions.
Jo: Oh, yeah. So in agency speak, you know, it's buying a house and there's a standard, every state's got a different ruling in that, but it could be that you know, that the vendor is elderly, and they've been there for four decades, and therefore, it's a lot of emotion and you might offer a longer settlement to allow them that time or one last Christmas or whatever it might be to just to ease the process, not you know, here's my offer, you've got 30 days to move out after four decades. So that's, you know, that's a term and condition. I've actually won a property multiple, multiple properties actually on the best on the back of the fact that I'm meeting those terms and conditions that suit the vendor, not always the top price. And that you know, again, when you're there is no speaker fee, you know, let's let's come to an agreement then that like, you know, as you said it could be having access to their database, or perhaps you're prepared to take a clip on the ticket because it means you're going to be in a room and be there to get in front of some other big, big key decision makers as well. So if there's some sort of win win, I think that's really important. When you're doing negotiations ultimately want to win win outcome. So yes, I will speak for free which takes energy it takes time and it's you know, there's a hard cost obviously to the to you as a presenter. But if that means you get in a room in front of somebody, people, perhaps it's just the fact that you want the cloud to say Look at me, I presented at this event, therefore I'm great. So let me speak at your event. It's, it's, you know, find that leverage for yourself, you know, what is it going to help you open those doors, having access to their database, being able to promote yourself on their social pages and things like that. That's another key way of going about doing just something that it's helping promote you. So maybe you can't see an absolute cost benefit. Initially, but there will be one in the long run.
Jaimie: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and also you can perhaps skip down the opportunity film so you could be speaking for free and say to them, Can I film this or can I get some testimonials and that is gold because you can then use that to leverage other speaking opportunities. You mentioned opening doors and I guess a question around that is, you know, and I just think you're one of the most likable, easygoing people who were in a sort of a mastermind together, Tina Tower’s, Her Empire Builder and we've got we bought the Palm Springs together and we're the Gold Coast the other day. We're in Uluru a couple of years ago. And everywhere, I mean everywhere and so like,
Jo: And Port Douglas?
Jaimie: Port Douglas yeah, forgot about that. Yeah.
Jo: What a lifestyle, Jaimie.
Jaimie: Lifestyles of the rich and famous. Yeah. So you know, and one of the things that I've just always been drawn to you, I just think you one of the nicest, most easygoing, funny people, you know, and we've built a connection from that and you know, we're part of that network and I can just see how easy you can establish other networks and and do some networking effectively. So how important do you think building connections, especially post COVID? When we're all coming back out again, and, and going to in person events, how important do you think it is to build connections, connections and networks? When it comes to finding great opportunities for yourself?
Jo: Oh, it's everything like it's just everything. So I think that's what helped me because there's been a lot of buyers agents and a lot of people newly trained, little experience a lot younger, so they don't have the same sort of rungs on the ladder as somebody else like myself that has been able to do a lot of different strategies over a lot of different times. I've been in the industry, you know, GFC you know, I've got that I've got the ups and downs of, you know, the journey along the way. And some it's one of those industries where it can be feast and famine, real estate sales is feast and famine as well. So you know, 2023 was a tough year with the interest rate rises and what I felt like the thing that was always helped me is the fact that I've got really strong established networks and that is, you know, a lot of referral partners within within when I talk to a client I say, get your team around you great accountant, could be financial planner, a broker solicitor, and I've got a number of different contacts in those spaces, and they pass on referrals to me and that's been you know, relationships. Now that, you know, you know, 12 year old relationships if not longer because, and they know, I'm going to look after their clients and they know that, you know, when when we purchased the property, we'll use them for convenience in an office and back when the client says I want to refinance. I'm like, well, make sure you go back to the broker First, don't just take the business straight to a bank. So they know that that relationship exists. So having that network is so absolutely vital. And like yourself, you know, we've done a lot of external networking as well, like, you know, BNI and other things like that. So, I remember having a lot of lunches back in the early days and just to meet people, you know, and it also helps if you're new in business or you're used to, you know, pitching yourself if it's, you know, whether it's, you know, just a PR exercise or you want to get people to put you on stage and things like that or get paid to speak it's just you just got to get out there you got to you know, no matter how history can be awkward if you're, you know, an absolute introvert, but you really need people to remember you and that's why I'm saying like just the old school make eye contact remember their name, follow them up if they've made an inquiry or something like that just you know, make sure they've got your details. You know, I know you mentioned you might want to look at buying a property next year it was really nice to meet you. You know, these are my details if you ever want to speak you know offhand, you know about your next purchase.
Jaimie: Yeah, that's always those events. I find in my experience that I don't feel like going to and I have to drag myself out because, you know, I'm tired. I'm a parent to you two little boys and I feel tired sometimes. But it's always those events where you weren't going to attend that you made a jackpot connection. I remember I was at a charity breakfast last year and I sat next I wasn't up speaking. I wasn't feeling like networking. It was one of those events where you sit down and have breakfast and around tables and I sat next to one woman from the Central Coast in New South Wales, literally just chatted just her and I for the whole breakfast. And she bought my course about two months later, and I thought I recognise that name. It first went through and checked and she said when we met at that, at this charity breakfast that I just you know, wanted to buy your course and I was really interested so you never know where you're going to meet that next client or someone who's going to open doors for you. So it's really really important
Jo: I did a speaking event are years and years ago and I you know, it's one of those things you can always quantify when you're on stage, whether it's going to come back and reward you. And then I got a text message organically and it's just said, are you still doing that buyer's agent thing? Oh, wait, yeah, we're still doing that thing. And that client, she went on to buy a couple of properties, believe me, we're still in contact. I mean, you know, every now and then I'll drop her a note to see how she's going and she's now taken herself out of these industry that she's she was in and is now you see I think she'd stages property for sale. So it's fun to sort of see a lot of my clients have jumped ship or they've love it so much. They renovators, you know, the interior designers, some of them a few few of them actually gone on to manage Airbnbs as well. So, you know, I keep in contact with a lot of those people but it is one of those things you can't always quantify exactly that presentation, when that person might come back and go, Hey, he's still doing that thing. So although you don't know where some people are working, so there could be that they're in an office meeting and they're like, we need a presenter for X, Y and Zed and they just happen to remember they met you two Fridays ago at a networking event.
Jaimie: Yeah, absolutely. Before you go. I've got two quick questions. Hopefully they're not big questions, and I think they're little. The first is, you know, what do you think are some of the biggest mistakes that buyers make when they're looking at property?
Jo: I think a lot of people chase other people's successes and they're often three years too late. So or they'll chase a strategy that someone's done and that doesn't suit their personality, you know, like your brother in law ripped down a house and build a duplex and you're lucky I want to do what he did but you don't have the capital. You don't have the know how and you don't live in the area. So people will be chasing someone else's dream because it looks successful. And it also could be that that was a very different market. And now it's a lot harder to do that the counter regulation, the change or the costs and things like that. So I think if you're a buyer, especially in the I'm probably speaking more about investors here. Make sure whatever whatever strategy to join is in alignment with yourself your age and stage of life as well. Like if you're busy and you've got you know, two year old twins and you're working full time. Don't watch the block and go young and it has enormous big, you know, big renovation project because it's probably going to be a marriage ender. Or it's going to be overwhelming. Just be kind to yourself and do something maybe take a baby step first before you launch into doing a massive subdivision that's way over your head, and it's going to cause you so many months of grief and possibly it could put you in some sort of financial Jeopardy.
Jaimie: Yeah, absolutely. And the other thing is I wanted to ask you. 2024. What is it like what you know, it's going to be like the next and wearing it sort of coming into May now. This is going live. So what's the next couple of months gonna be like the real estate industry in Australia?
Jo: Gosh it's a hard one to predict because until recently it was almost like the back end of 2024. We're gonna see some dips in will potentially drop in interest rate. Now that's a little bit are we, maybe we're not maybe we'll go up so people a little bit spooked by that. But with that said, I'm in the end of the market where everything is moving. You know, I'm seeing what stocks but I'm also seeing a lot more activity. There is a return to confidence there will be no consumer confidence. So we're getting a lot more investor inquiries now. I find the top end of the markets a little bit more dragging like you know, that's not moving at the same rate, but I'm mostly agents I'm speaking to they're selling everything. They're selling all their stock. Someone shared something with me, you know almost like just here three days ago and they said oh did your client like it? Or hang on a sec just went under contract so I literally things are moving in that kind of pace.
Jaimie: Yeah, interesting. Yeah, time will tell I suppose. Is there anything else you wanted to add over for we bid you farewell so you can get along get on with your busy day?
Jo: Yeah, look, I mean, I just think when you apply those skills, you know and negotiation skills, if it's not for you, especially when it's talking about money, whether it's in business, if you're pitching yourself, perhaps you could look at working with an agency, if it's a negotiating property if that is not for you outsource it, not a buyer's agents deliver and a full end to end service, you could just ask for a bespoke quote. So it could be that they just come in at the tail end of a property you found represent you at auction and hand over the keys to in that in that regard, or just come in to do the negotiations as well. So you know, make sure if it's not your skill set, you outsource that.
Jaimie: Yeah, great. Jo Vadillo, thank you so much for coming onto Pitch Perfect once again.
Jo: Yay. Thank you.
Jaimie: We'll see you again soon.
